Juan Carlos Copes"Seminars and Workshops Started With Me"

“ Johana has inherited a way of feeling Buenos Aires.”

“Nieves is the best dancer ever ”

“For me, ‘Quejas…’ is the “ABC” of tango, with three parts, very clearly defined. Where one may first show that the rhythm dominates, show what the adagio feels and then show one’s skill in the final variation.”

On 31 May he was 76. He celebrated it at full stretch. Working, with his family, with projects. With a few sensible precautions because he suffers from high blood pressure. But flat out with tango, as he has been for 60 years now. “This is my life, I love this, for me it’s priestly. I want to die in this,” he says, afterwards in his dressing room at the Esquina Carlos Gardel, where for the past year every night he has danced “Danzarín” and “La Cumparsita”, together with his daughter Johana.

Maestro of maestros, he opened the way back in the ‘50s, when he was transcendent as an enthusiastic amateur dancer at milongas until he turned tango into a show of theatrical calibre. “I’m the inventor of all this and now I’m the employee,” he says, calmly, without resentment, but with certainty.“The seminars and workshops began with me and today lots and lots of people earn a living thanks to that cornerstone which I was convinced would sooner or later be the way.”
While they pose for the photos on Corrientes and Anchorena streets, in the heart of the Abasto district, as the tango says “se paran pa’mirarlos” [people stop to look at them]. Some take advantage and take photos and comment. Johana, proud of her father, says with a smile: “He has the heart of an artist, if he were a businessman, he’d be a millionaire with all that he’s done.

”Originally from the Mataderos district, he was a teenager when he began to do the rounds of clubs and milongas. He met María Nievesat La Estrella de Maldonado, but it was at the Club de Atlanta where they became dancing partners and “we put together and worked on our own style, we invented everything there.” Hence, at the reopening of the Club, on 27 May, last month, the first floor hall now bears his name: Juan Carlos Copes. A legend of Buenos Aires. “A Bible”, as Johana says. We return and already in his dressing room he starts to tell us…
- In 1951, you were acclaimed Champion at the Luna Park…- Yes, but I don’t believe in championships. Absolutely not. When I won, we went to receive the payment and it had been given to someone else. What happened was that the public started shouting the number we had on our backs, so the adjudicators were obliged… But every cloud has a silver lining. All the same, Nieves and I got to know the most important cabarets of Buenos Aires: Chantecler, Tibidavo, Tabarís and where I worked twice: Marabú.- In ’55 the two of you had your debut with the impresario Carlos A. Petit…- It was my first professional contract. I had put my amateur phase behind me. The following year we played at Tabarís… “Tangolandia” in 1957. And in ’59 I was already putting together the company with Piazzolla in Mexico.- Absolute pioneers. Were there other professional dancers before you two?- There was only one couple: Julia and Lalo Bello. He was Spanish, they were the only well-known ones who danced with Troilo, with Canaro. They were the first to go to Japan. I refer to dancers, not actors, because before there was no actor who didn’t know how to dance tango: Tito Lusiardo, Enrique Muiño, Elías Alipi… El Cachafaz gave himself the pleasure of beating the lot of them.
The milongueros, without a trades union

For Copes, his best work was in 1997, “Entre Borges y Piazzolla”: all the awards, but it was not a box-office hit. “That is, the intellectual doesn’t go with the popular,” he maintains. And he underlines almost with surprise, that he still receives rights payments for the movie “Tango” from countries he doesn’t even know.
- Júnior said they have to be grateful to you and María Nieves.- Yes, he says that. Zotto does too. But there are others who don’t say it. Sadly, we don’t even have a trades union. Milongueros are the only ones who have no union representation because it’s never been possible to join together. I’m a pensioner of the Musician’s Union, I’m a member of Argentores and I’ve always sought union. When we wanted to do it, they immediately wanted to make a festival. I said: “Stop, we need two years of study to put things together properly and well-planned.”- After having experienced the Golden Age of tango, what do you feel now with the current trend?- I see it well. There were three decades in which the whole world, not just Argentina, stopped dancing in couples. And I attribute the success of tango throughout the world to the fact that they have gone back to embracing.- Did the greatest glory of your career come with “Tango Argentino”, by Orezzoli and Segovia?- No, absolutely not. They based themselves on what I do in order to achieve all that! The chats, the choreography, Segovia was talking about all of that with me ever since ’76, and when it came to fruition in ’83, it was done because democracy arrived. It was a relief, here and in France.- What differences were there between the two of them?- Segovia was the talent, the one who thought, and Orezzoli the one who looked after the money. But the first mistake they made was in Italy. I told them. The orchestra was fabulous, the singers too, but there wasn’t a musical director, a choreographic director… For example, there was a tribute to Troilo and I said: Don’t put ‘Quejas de Bandoneón’ and ‘Danzarín’, because Danzarín is more sombre and more deeply felt. For me, ‘Quejas…’ is the “ABC” of tango, with three parts, very clearly defined. Where one may first show that the rhythm dominates, show what the adagio feels and then show one’s skill in the final variation.- And in the end, did he take any notice of you? Did he change it?- Yes, he did. I said to him: “If you don’t get the better of this, you’ll loose it.” Instead of doing something mystical, a homage, it was transformed, it departed from what it signified or what Segovia intended, which was the most similar to an amateur milonga. I carry on doing “Quejas” the same as when I started, with mystique.
Infernal and glorious bug…
Hundred percent artiste, the clothing and footwear is not just a minor detail. How many outfits does Copes have?... “No-o-o, I’ve lost count along the way…!” confesses the maestro, preening himself in his basement dressing room. “The clothing is very important, in the sense that it reflects above all your personality and at the same time represents the personality of who it is you are carrying out, that is to say the musician, the orchestra, everything… When this infernal bug which is tango – infernal in many senses and glorious in all senses - got into my veins, I recall that to really look good in “Tangolandia” by Francisco Canaro, I wanted to shine, to dazzle and I paid up front for two outfits. The first one I bought in Libertad street, a pale brown suit with stripes a little darker, nothing like the typical dress. It was second-hand, huge and my mother altered it for me. Later I had them made to measure by a tailor.- What was the most expensive one?- Some of 1,500 to 2,000 dollars, made specially for working on Broadway.- And which shoes do you prefer?- The line that was used later was also invented by me. Ordinary shoes weren’t easy for dancing in, they came unstitched, they fell apart very quickly. So I resorted to the Spanish type of shoes, for dancing flamenco. I even said to Fattomano one day: “Why put gaiters on top? Make it all one piece, and above the opening on the inside put a zipper and on the outside, in cream color, put buttons. Today you’ll see this type of shoe all over the world. I now use some that are Spanish type underneath and above with laces.- The clothing is also a whole ritual for the milonguero.- Yes, there used to be a special store for cravats, another that made shirts with a large open neck, so as to put the bow, Alberto Castillo style. There are lots of things that aren’t recognized as being Castillo, but within the song itself he was a Piazzolla. That’s to say, he changed the shapes, the style. Each one sought out the way to stand out with personality, not imitating.- And there are the milonga’s codes.- Yes. Some used to say you had to love clandestine game. I went to all the race-courses and I was bored. Others said you had to get drunk: I took a whole load of those and it was bad, because I mixed them. but what was never spoken of in my amateur days was drug-taking.- Wasn’t there any?- It’s not that there wasn’t any: it was very expensive. They were used by the double-barreled surnames. We knew it existed, but it wasn’t affordable for the pocket of one who went to a milonga to dance. - That’s changed now…- Nowadays there a lot. When there was an exhibition of Finito together with Petróleo I went to the bathroom and I found myself attacked by people offering me the goods. I said to them: “it’s not my scene”, and they didn’t believe me.

María Nieves, life-long dancer…
- María Nieves told me that the two of you took great care of yourselves for the show.- That’s right…- Excuse me, but just now, listening to you speak and looking at you, you reminded me of her…(He smiles) – Well they were forty years of life together, you can’t forget them just like that! We were married in Las Vegas, and later we divorced. Then I married Myriam (Myriam Ivonne Albuernes), with whom I had Johana and Geraldine, who gave me my granddaughter: Malena, who’s 1 year old. God punished me: I’m surrounded by women! (He laughs)… I tell anyone and everyone that she is the best dancer of all time, not of the century like me. I was given the Dancer of the Century award, but I’ve seen Nieved do things with great dancers that I wouldn’t dare to do with great dancers. That’s to say, Nieves is tango! Tango found us. I always say it takes two to tango but one feeling between them, and if there’s no chemistry… It’s very hard to forget the chemistry!- What were the differences between the two of you?- She wanted to let go and I didn’t… The last times were gloomy: she used to say that’s enough and I wanted to carry on. For me it’s a priesthood, I love this. So we did a tour in Japan in ’97 and stopped dancing together. She was always very negative, I prepared everything and would call her at the last moment so as not to argue. We’d go on stage swearing at each other, and we’d go off and carry on swearing. But in the middle was the true Copes-Nieves. We felt the silence!- You created the style in the Atlanta…- Yes. I saw the two styles: that of doing and the smooth, elegant. My creation was to combine the two. And later when I invented the tango-show, it was like a flowering of tango in spring. And so everyone started to copy us. To the point where I ended up punching one who went to Karina to spy! There were no videocassettes in the old days!- Did you feel the criticism for dancing with your daughter?- Yes!... Many thought I was having an affair with my daughter, or vice-versa. But we made it clear that there’s a glass between us and what we show is technique of how a tango should be danced.- Is she rebellious or does she take notice of you?- Yes, she’s rebellious… like all women she’s very difficult… (laughs).- What has she inherited from you?- At a human level, she knows I was never a law-breaker, I never had to lie or cover things up: everything out in the open and if I was wrong, may God forgive me… I think she’s learned that from childhood and inherited a way of feeling, of feeling Buenos Aires, feeling her country, a way of feeling Argentine! And that’s what we lack!... Martín Fierro says it: brothers should be united, that’s the first law… And it’s not fulfilled, here every day we are more separated… Here we have everything, a gold mine not exploited, a rich country, with everything and we don’t take any notice. We give it away! The more illiteracy and ignorance there is, the better, to the benefit of some four or five who govern us.

Silvia Rojas
Photos: Eduardo Sarapura

Milena Plebs Analyzes Current Scene

Remarkable dancer and choreographer analyzes the current scene and talks about the need to explore new tango dance possibilities, to avoid crystallization.
(Publ. 03-07-2007)

By Laura Falcoff

“It would be good for tango to continue evolving, so that it could stay alive and avoid crystallization of forms,” says Milena Plebs, who, as dancer, choreographer and also as a qualified observer, is interested in how this dance shows itself and changes.
Her view is particularly appreciated in a milieu that recognizes her as the great renovator of the tango dance scene alongisde Miguel Angel Zotto, starting with the creation of the Tango x 2 company – which they shared until 1997.
¿How do you think the development of the tango dance is possible? Along what tracks? I am thinking of how I can do it, or how I can get others do to it through what I write. Wishing tango to keep on evolving, to foster new forms, is not a fanciful wish. What usually happens is that when something new crops up, it soon crystallizes and you can see clones repeating the same sequences, dancing couples who copy each other, perhaps to different music but with the same forms.
In what way? By increasing the value of improvisation as a unique moment from which new forms can arise. What’s your opinion of the tango you see at milongas and the tango you see on stage? Let’s leave aside tango at dance houses, which perhaps is not worth mentioning. Just like it’s not worth mentioning championships, either. As to the question, I think, firstly, that instructors should take a longer time and more effort to explore the many possibilities each dance instance opens up.
Tango is made up of certain elements, certain steps, which can be combined in different forms. Students, and dancers in general –some people know about this, but very few- should be taught that the end of each step leaves the door open to different possibilities. And to those countless possible combinations which your proposal aims at. Usually, dancers are taught blocks of sequences which become very difficult to break up later. You will see dancers, both at milongas and on stage, who, when starting a sequence, do not stop until they end it. That sequence may be formed by, let’s say, ten steps, and each of them gives you the chance to break up the sequence with maybe two or three different alternatives.
A more active approach should be taken when learning to dance tango, rather than a passive one, taking what the instructor gives me or what I copy from a video.
Improvisation is an action in the present continuous, choreography is in the past. Could you expand on this idea? Choreography is present the moment you create it with your partner during rehearsals, when you are searching for steps. Once it becomes settled and is repeated, it is no longer present, it is past. Do you consider, then, that improvisation could, or should, be taken on stage? I do not have an answer to that today. I only speak about things I think about; let debate take place among everybody. What I can say is that dancers who prepare their choreographies must take pains so that their creation will not look too automatic, too fixed…too boring. A very basic and obvious piece of advice to prevent this is to keep your mark, to have the man keep marking movements on stage because the dynamics that arise from this are totally different. I think it’s all about looking for the way to shorten distances between choreography dancing and spontaneous dancing. I’m not saying that you should do away with choreography, but that it should preserve the freshness and organic spirit of improvised dancing.